Not a good time for the Conservative government in the UK

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  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    edited January 2024
    Personally I'm rooting for another leadership contest, a victory for one or other far right headbanger immediately followed by the defection of the 50 or so least bonkers tory MPs, perhaps to the lib dems but ideally to a nice, vote splitting, One Nation Party leaving Sunak as caretaker PM during an utter free-for-all general election where the ONP takes huge bites out of Starmer leaving him with a bare majority on 30% of the vote with the rest split 6 ways and making plain the urgent need for electoral reform and in the meantime leaving Starmer dependent on the Socialist Campaign Group.
  • ideally to a nice, vote splitting, One Nation Party leaving Sunak as caretaker PM during an utter free-for-all general election where the ONP takes huge bites out of Starmer leaving him with a bare majority on 30% of the vote with the rest split 6 ways and making plain the urgent need for electoral reform and in the meantime leaving Starmer dependent on the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Tbh, the ONP really *ought* to be the LibDems. The only thing stopping them is their membership.

    I know people who join political parties these days are almost by default not representative of wider society, but the Liberals really are, um, 'stretched' between a zealous membership of out and out radicals, and a voter set who live up to the old 'Tories without their kicking boots' jibe.



  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    ideally to a nice, vote splitting, One Nation Party leaving Sunak as caretaker PM during an utter free-for-all general election where the ONP takes huge bites out of Starmer leaving him with a bare majority on 30% of the vote with the rest split 6 ways and making plain the urgent need for electoral reform and in the meantime leaving Starmer dependent on the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Tbh, the ONP really *ought* to be the LibDems. The only thing stopping them is their membership.

    I know people who join political parties these days are almost by default not representative of wider society, but the Liberals really are, um, 'stretched' between a zealous membership of out and out radicals, and a voter set who live up to the old 'Tories without their kicking boots' jibe.



    I think it depends where you are - I grew up in the west country and you voted lib dem because they were reasonably lefty and there was no other show in town (I lived in the only Labour ward in the entire district, possibly county). In other places they vote lib dem because it's the only way to fight Dread Socialism.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    30p Lee again?

    That Miriam Cates was on the radio earlier about this. Naturally she wants the "illegal immigrants*" deporting to Rwanda forthwith. Essentially her churchgoing, Christian background seems to be used as a guide as to who she should hate**, rather than inspiring any sense of compassion in the woman.

    What is it with Tory MPs in this neck of the woods? Is there something about the middle of the country that removes empathy or any sense of common humanity?

    *Legal status - asylum seekers. This language change is deliberate depersonalising demonisation.

    **Trans and non binary people, of course. And lefties.
  • Well, as we're often told, we should be careful what we wish for - but the sight of the fecking tories imploding might bring at least some passing satisfaction...

    Enkidu, come and save us from Gilgamesh! Marduk, hear!
  • ideally to a nice, vote splitting, One Nation Party leaving Sunak as caretaker PM during an utter free-for-all general election where the ONP takes huge bites out of Starmer leaving him with a bare majority on 30% of the vote with the rest split 6 ways and making plain the urgent need for electoral reform and in the meantime leaving Starmer dependent on the Socialist Campaign Group.

    Tbh, the ONP really *ought* to be the LibDems. The only thing stopping them is their membership.

    I know people who join political parties these days are almost by default not representative of wider society, but the Liberals really are, um, 'stretched' between a zealous membership of out and out radicals, and a voter set who live up to the old 'Tories without their kicking boots' jibe.



    I think it depends where you are - I grew up in the west country and you voted lib dem because they were reasonably lefty and there was no other show in town (I lived in the only Labour ward in the entire district, possibly county). In other places they vote lib dem because it's the only way to fight Dread Socialism.

    that's fair - it must be a hell of a horse to ride;

    'vote for us, Labour can't win here, only we can stop the Tories'

    in a load of seats, and

    'vote for us, the Tories can't win here, only we can stop Labour'

    in a load of others.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    30p Lee again?

    That Miriam Cates was on the radio earlier about this. Naturally she wants the "illegal immigrants*" deporting to Rwanda forthwith. Essentially her churchgoing, Christian background seems to be used as a guide as to who she should hate**, rather than inspiring any sense of compassion in the woman.

    What is it with Tory MPs in this neck of the woods? Is there something about the middle of the country that removes empathy or any sense of common humanity?

    *Legal status - asylum seekers. This language change is deliberate depersonalising demonisation.

    **Trans and non binary people, of course. And lefties.

    Yes, Thirty-Pee Lee is the ringleader, or one of them. Our next PM, even if only until the GE?
    :scream:

    Maybe Marcion was right, and the world was created by le mal Dieu - the evil God...

    He seems to have a number of devotees in the tory party, at any rate.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    30p Lee again?

    That Miriam Cates was on the radio earlier about this. Naturally she wants the "illegal immigrants*" deporting to Rwanda forthwith. Essentially her churchgoing, Christian background seems to be used as a guide as to who she should hate**, rather than inspiring any sense of compassion in the woman.

    What is it with Tory MPs in this neck of the woods? Is there something about the middle of the country that removes empathy or any sense of common humanity?

    *Legal status - asylum seekers. This language change is deliberate depersonalising demonisation.

    **Trans and non binary people, of course. And lefties.

    Yes, Thirty-Pee Lee is the ringleader, or one of them. Our next PM, even if only until the GE?
    :scream:

    I'm reasonably certain old 30p couldn't command a majority in the house so would not be appointed PM (the current PM is required to advise the King on this). Sunak would remain caretaker pending a general election.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    30p Lee again?

    That Miriam Cates was on the radio earlier about this. Naturally she wants the "illegal immigrants*" deporting to Rwanda forthwith. Essentially her churchgoing, Christian background seems to be used as a guide as to who she should hate**, rather than inspiring any sense of compassion in the woman.

    What is it with Tory MPs in this neck of the woods? Is there something about the middle of the country that removes empathy or any sense of common humanity?

    *Legal status - asylum seekers. This language change is deliberate depersonalising demonisation.

    **Trans and non binary people, of course. And lefties.

    Yes, Thirty-Pee Lee is the ringleader, or one of them. Our next PM, even if only until the GE?
    :scream:

    I'm reasonably certain old 30p couldn't command a majority in the house so would not be appointed PM (the current PM is required to advise the King on this). Sunak would remain caretaker pending a general election.

    For this relief, much thanks. 'Twas a rough night thought, and my young old remembrance cannot parallel a fellow to it...

    (with apologies to Mr Shakespeare...)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    BTW, is it just me, or is anyone else simply aghast at the thought that the only thing the fecking tory feckers are worried about today is transporting TRAUMATISED VULNERABLE HUMAN BEINGS to a fecking prison camp in fecking Rwanda?

    :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:
    '
  • BTW, is it just me, or is anyone else simply aghast at the thought that the only thing the fecking tory feckers are worried about today is transporting TRAUMATISED VULNERABLE HUMAN BEINGS to a fecking prison camp in fecking Rwanda?

    :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage:
    '

    No!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Glad to hear it...

    General Election NOW! Flush the fecking tory turds down the fecking Toilet of Oblivion, as they so richly deserve!

    Apologies for bad language (let the reader understand) but it all makes me so angry...and so fecking helpless...
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Some good news possibly - 30p Lee has resigned as Tory deputy chairman.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Did he let the door hit him on the way out?
  • So the right wing think that a more extreme deportation policy will win votes, and possibly depose Sunak? Crumbs.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    So the right wing think that a more extreme deportation policy will win votes, and possibly depose Sunak? Crumbs.

    Cates does. She was banging on this morning that it's what "the people" want. Nearly got to the point of screaming at the radio.

    Besides, there's more to it than "what people want", when people's lives are being played with. Yes, even in a democracy. It's not a morally neutral question, like deciding between a modern IPA or a cask bitter*

    *the latter is the correct answer, but I'm not going to invoke questions of ethics over it.
  • So the right wing think that a more extreme deportation policy will win votes, and possibly depose Sunak? Crumbs.

    Just so. Swivel-eyed loons, the lot of them. Lord, have mercy.
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Some good news possibly - 30p Lee has resigned as Tory deputy chairman.

    So has the equally awful Brendan-Clarke. The new Swivel-Eyed Loon Party is taking shape...
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    I'm impressed by how much power so many Tories think the UK Parliament has. They've already shown that just by making a decision on those green benches that they can call people exercising their rights under international law to seek asylum in any safe nation "illegal immigrants". Now they're claiming that a decision to call Rwanda a safe place will make it so. Has anyone expressed how they intend to make Rwanda safe? Do they intend to force a change of government in Rwanda to one that respects the rights of all, in particular the rights of people seeking asylum? It's difficult to imagine how the current UK government could manage that when they can't even make the UK a safe place for all.
  • Well, when you're totally deranged, as the tories clearly are, you can believe anything before breakfast...and at any other time, come to that.
  • ETA: Brendan Clarke-Smith, I meant. gods forbid I should get the fuckwit's name wrong.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    30p Lee again?
    On his GBN Christmas show, he was given a Christmas card by a young teenage boy. The boy was asked to read the card. He said, " Merry Christmas 30p Lee ". The MP grinned and said, " You're barred"
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    You need to stop fretting about this. If the bill had passed amended it would not have been acceptable to Rwanda. If the bill eventually passes unamended it will not get any planes in the air going to Rwanda.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    “But Officer, it was only attempted murder - it’s not as if we succeeded!”

    There are some things moral people do not even try to do.
  • So the right wing think that a more extreme deportation policy will win votes

    Not only do they think that, they’re probably right about it. A large part of the Brexit vote was from people wanting to stop “them” coming here, after all, and it’s a wellspring the Tories have been happy to tap ever since.

    Note, for example, how many of the “swivel-eyed loons” are from so-called Red Wall seats that only turned Blue in 2019 - an election that was effectively run as a second Brexit referendum. They owe their very existence as MPs to campaigning for this sort of policy, and now they’re trying desperately to deliver before having to go to the polls again.
  • Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    30p Lee again?
    On his GBN Christmas show, he was given a Christmas card by a young teenage boy. The boy was asked to read the card. He said, " Merry Christmas 30p Lee ". The MP grinned and said, " You're barred"
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    You need to stop fretting about this. If the bill had passed amended it would not have been acceptable to Rwanda. If the bill eventually passes unamended it will not get any planes in the air going to Rwanda.

    @Telford is right, and says something I needed to hear. And Psalm 37 of course.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Or as Frankie Boyle put it: 'Brexit was voted for by those who wanted to stop people coming here from Pakistan'.

    A good piece by Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times. I don't know if it's Subscriber Only, but the gist is that it was the Irish - more particularly young males detached from their families and living in poor accommodation- who were the feared and criminalised immigrants of their day.

    Of course we're never going to be the ones driven by Famine or Clearances to leave our homes, are we?
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Of course we're never going to be the ones driven by Famine or Clearances to leave our homes, are we?

    Deep in our (British) Psyche, we believe not. Hence, we can comfortably 'other' asylum seekers.

    AFZ
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Firenze wrote: »
    Of course we're never going to be the ones driven by Famine or Clearances to leave our homes, are we?

    Deep in our (British) Psyche, we believe not. Hence, we can comfortably 'other' asylum seekers.

    AFZ

    English. Cultural memory of the Clearances, the Crofter's War et al is very much alive here, which is probably part of why Scotland hasn't be captured by this racist crap to the same extent. The township where I live grew up because this strip of coastal land was all that the Duke of Argyll would allow the displaced cottars to build on when he cleared the land for sheep. Some made their living from the sea but many were forced to leave.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Of course we're never going to be the ones driven by Famine or Clearances to leave our homes, are we?

    Deep in our (British) Psyche, we believe not. Hence, we can comfortably 'other' asylum seekers.

    AFZ

    English. Cultural memory of the Clearances, the Crofter's War et al is very much alive here, which is probably part of why Scotland hasn't be captured by this racist crap to the same extent. The township where I live grew up because this strip of coastal land was all that the Duke of Argyll would allow the displaced cottars to build on when he cleared the land for sheep. Some made their living from the sea but many were forced to leave.

    Good point. Well made.

  • English. Cultural memory of the Clearances, the Crofter's War et al is very much alive here, which is probably part of why Scotland hasn't be captured by this racist crap to the same extent.

    I think there's an interesting question there as to *why* cultural memory of the clearances is so alive in Scotland, when the Enclosures in England are basically forgotten, outside people like me with too much time on their hands. Potentially because it didn't lead to wholesale emigration overseas, just clearance to the urban areas?

    There's a whole thesis to be written by someone on the suppression of English cultural memory, and by whom.


  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host

    English. Cultural memory of the Clearances, the Crofter's War et al is very much alive here, which is probably part of why Scotland hasn't be captured by this racist crap to the same extent.

    I think there's an interesting question there as to *why* cultural memory of the clearances is so alive in Scotland, when the Enclosures in England are basically forgotten, outside people like me with too much time on their hands. Potentially because it didn't lead to wholesale emigration overseas, just clearance to the urban areas?

    There's a whole thesis to be written by someone on the suppression of English cultural memory, and by whom.


    I think you could point to the difference in migration patterns, the distances involved, the degree of depopulation (enclosure improved agricultural efficiency but still needed a lot of labour compared with switching out small mixed farms with large pure livestock farms), the earlier date for most enclosure, the larger proportion of land affected (the Sutherland estate alone was over 4000km² vs 28000km² for all land enclosed in England in 300 years), the swiftness of the action, the callousness of the evictions in a post New Poor Law world, and the organisation to fight back through the Highland Land League and the Crofter's Party. Most of all I think it's time period. There are (just about) folk alive today who heard first hand accounts of that time (and certainly recordings from those who did), whereas for those who suffered as a result of enclosure there is not even that memory of a memory. When those evicted in Strathcarron took shelter in the Kirk yard they could carve their despair on the windows as a testimony to the injustice they had suffered, a skill that was likely rarer a century prior.
  • Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    30p Lee again?
    On his GBN Christmas show, he was given a Christmas card by a young teenage boy. The boy was asked to read the card. He said, " Merry Christmas 30p Lee ". The MP grinned and said, " You're barred"
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    You need to stop fretting about this. If the bill had passed amended it would not have been acceptable to Rwanda. If the bill eventually passes unamended it will not get any planes in the air going to Rwanda.
    Telford wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    30p Lee again?
    On his GBN Christmas show, he was given a Christmas card by a young teenage boy. The boy was asked to read the card. He said, " Merry Christmas 30p Lee ". The MP grinned and said, " You're barred"
    Meanwhile, the tories still seem fixated on their inhuman desire to send innocent people to a prison camp in Africa, and some are apparently intending to vote against Sushi's amendments to his evil plan.

    This might trigger yet another tory leadership campaign, which may, or may not, be a Good Thing, depending on your POV. At any rate, it's obvious that the sheer unbridled lunacy is still increasing...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion

    You need to stop fretting about this. If the bill had passed amended it would not have been acceptable to Rwanda. If the bill eventually passes unamended it will not get any planes in the air going to Rwanda.

    Thank you for your advice, and for the heart-warming story about Thirty-Pee Lee. However, the Rwanda lunacy is only part of the tories' overall detachment from real life, and important issues. As @Cameron says:

    There are some things moral people do not even try to do.
  • The Rwanda policy is like an endless rerun of Brexit, and presumably the right wing are convinced they can save the Tory party, and the nation. To others, it seems nightmarish and sadistic. Is it really possible that one day we will be free of this shit-show? I don't know, because if the Tories lose, Farage will be poised to repeat forever, "small boats", while Labour try to look at something else. The irony is that Boris let in large numbers of immigrants.
  • Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?
  • Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?
  • Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?

    OK, Fujitsu as well as the UK *government*...

    I'm surprised to learn that @Telford thinks (or at least implies) that it's all Fujitsu's fault, though.
  • Meanwhile, back to *Stop The Boats*, and tory gobshite Giles (T)Watling MP has come up with a brilliant wheeze - to send in Our Boys to invade and liberate Northern France.
    :flushed:

    This is a statement by him, copied from the Guardian:

    The Home Office has demonstrated time and again that it is either unwilling or unable to grapple with the scale of the challenge facing it, and to that extent I believe it is time that it is relieved of the responsibility of policing our borders and instead the issue is handed to the Ministry of Defence. This is after all a defence of the realm matter and we need British boots on the ground.

    Our borders must be stronger, and in order to achieve that we must explore negotiating with our continental neighbours, pointing out that they would regain control of their overrun towns from Dunkirk to Boulogne if they allow that, in addition to the people we already have in their command and control centres, we put British boots on the ground in northern France to assist their efforts.


    What with the Forces busily engaged in fighting a war in the Red Sea, and probably needed in order to fly convicts to Rwanda, I guess conscription might be necessary. Still, it would help the unemployment problem...
  • Hilarious, but I suppose also sinister. How much more insanity must we endure?
  • To be fair, it's less than 500 years since Calais was last subject to the English Crown, which is scarcely the blink of an eye.
  • Perhaps Mr Twatling is the Hon. Member for the 16th century?
  • Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?

    OK, Fujitsu as well as the UK *government*...

    I'm surprised to learn that @Telford thinks (or at least implies) that it's all Fujitsu's fault, though.

    I never said it or implied it.

    Any compensation from the Post Office would come from the taxpayers

    Do you think that taxpayers should be paying ?
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Hon. Member for the Century of the Fruitbat more like.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?

    OK, Fujitsu as well as the UK *government*...

    I'm surprised to learn that @Telford thinks (or at least implies) that it's all Fujitsu's fault, though.

    I never said it or implied it.

    Any compensation from the Post Office would come from the taxpayers

    Do you think that taxpayers should be paying ?

    Well, maybe, maybe not. Depends if the government bears a share of the responsibility.

    Say the City Of Widgeton is presented with evidence that one of its bus drivers is bombed outta his skull on the job every day, and makes no effort to discipline him, so he eventually runs a red-light and kills someone. In that case, yeah, the government should be at least partly on the hook for any compensation paid to the bereaved. I'm sure the taxpayers won't be overjoyed about it, but dems da breaks.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?

    OK, Fujitsu as well as the UK *government*...

    I'm surprised to learn that @Telford thinks (or at least implies) that it's all Fujitsu's fault, though.

    I never said it or implied it.

    Any compensation from the Post Office would come from the taxpayers

    Do you think that taxpayers should be paying ?

    You said They should be compensated by Fujitsu. I can't see any mention there of the government, or of anyone else, so the implication is that it's Fujitsu's fault, and that they should cough up.

    Granted, it's all a bit of a mess, and no doubt hard-working taxpayers will eventually have to pay. It is what it is, and whether I like it or not is irrelevant.

  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    The irony is that the French have been asking for British personnel over here for about two bazillion years. However. We don't want soldiers. We want bloody immigration officials (whom HMG couldn't even be arsed to send to help those nice Ukrainian refugees they pretend to like).
  • And if 'our continental neighb9urs' fail to welcome British boots with sufficient enthusiasm, would Mr Watling send in the RAF, as it seems the Navy haven't a gunboat to spare at present?
  • I think paratroopers would go down well, quite dramatic with echoes of the war. "We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when".
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 2024
    The irony is that the French have been asking for British personnel over here for about two bazillion years. However. We don't want soldiers. We want bloody immigration officials (whom HMG couldn't even be arsed to send to help those nice Ukrainian refugees they pretend to like).

    Well, quite. Twatling the Fruitbat has probably conveniently forgotten about that.
    Eirenist wrote: »
    And if 'our continental neighb9urs' fail to welcome British boots with sufficient enthusiasm, would Mr Watling send in the RAF, as it seems the Navy haven't a gunboat to spare at present?

    The RAF are likely to be too busy, transporting illegal non-people convicts to Africa.
    I think paratroopers would go down well, quite dramatic with echoes of the war. "We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when".

    An appealing image, as they land on the stricken towns, all fired up, ready to free the poor defenceless French from the ravages of the murderous hordes which have overrun them...
  • Telford wrote: »
    Telford wrote: »
    Even Kuddly Kagame is getting fed up with the tories' madness:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

    If Rwanda does return the £££, maybe it could be used to compensate some of the victims of the Horizon scandal?

    I disagree. They should be compensated by Fujitsu.

    Only by Fujitsu?

    OK, Fujitsu as well as the UK *government*...

    I'm surprised to learn that @Telford thinks (or at least implies) that it's all Fujitsu's fault, though.

    I never said it or implied it.

    Any compensation from the Post Office would come from the taxpayers

    Do you think that taxpayers should be paying ?

    You said They should be compensated by Fujitsu. I can't see any mention there of the government, or of anyone else, so the implication is that it's Fujitsu's fault, and that they should cough up.

    Granted, it's all a bit of a mess, and no doubt hard-working taxpayers will eventually have to pay. It is what it is, and whether I like it or not is irrelevant.
    Fair enough but not all taxpayers are hard working.
  • Telford wrote: »

    Fair enough but not all taxpayers are hard working.

    True, for one thing Tory MPs pay tax.

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