The increasingly unhinged Sushi Rinak sees 20mph speed limits as *against British values*...although he and his lapdogs don't seem able to produce a definitive list of those *values*.
Bonkers - and yet he insists that he is delivering only good things to *hard-working British families*. What about all the families out of work, those in poverty, or the homeless, or the destitute, or those waiting never-to-be-had hospital appointments, or those without families...? What is he delivering them ?
They are not working hard enough to get themselves out the misery someone else has caused them. If we help them they will not help themselves, to get out of the mire other people put them in.
Exactly, the rich put them there and they only have themselves to blame, they need to pull their socks up, put their back into it, pull their finger out, sort themselves out.
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Those on board have been convicted of a crime - that of being a human being from a horrid foreign place, in need of compassion and help. The fascists and the gammon, however, see them as less than human, as illegal people...
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Are they at liberty to leave and live somewhere else?
They left without finding anyone hiding in his home and gave him a Home Office form, seen by the Observer, stating they were searching for “unknown illegal persons”.
My italics.
So there we have it, in print - there are officially people who are somehow illegal. Quite what they're supposed to do about it, in order to become legal, is another matter.
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Are they at liberty to leave and live somewhere else?
The government provides free accomodation for asylum seekers. If they chose to move out of the accomodation provided, they are cannot be prevented from doing so.
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Are they at liberty to leave and live somewhere else?
The government provides free accomodation for asylum seekers. If they chose to move out of the accomodation provided, they are not prevented from doing so.
Please read the link I provided in my previous post, which will tell you just what some of this free accommodation amounts to.
You will, if you read the link, note that this is how the government you seem so keen to support treats vulnerable disabled people. Something to be proud of? I think not, but YMMV.
If anyone refuses to accept offered accommodation, or after accepting it moves out, then they're not entitled to live anywhere else. When the choice is between the streets and a floating or landbased hotel, former barracks or some private let at barest minimal standard then it's not a real choice.
I provided a link earlier today reporting on the appalling conditions in a former care home, whose unfortunate residents really do not have any alternative, other than the streets, or death.
Perhaps that's what the fascists and the gammon actually want? At least, the horrid illegal people could then be swept up, and buried out of the sight of True-Blue Englishmen™ in common graves filled with lime.
There are videos on YouTube, dating from the 1940s, which show how it's done.
I provided a link earlier today reporting on the appalling conditions in a former care home, whose unfortunate residents really do not have any alternative, other than the streets, or death.
Perhaps that's what the fascists and the gammon actually want? At least, the horrid illegal people could then be swept up, and buried out of the sight of True-Blue Englishmen™ in common graves filled with lime.
There are videos on YouTube, dating from the 1940s, which show how it's done.
I have read the report. There is a long queue to have asyslum applications investigated. These poor people should be at the front of the queue.
How do you know they're not at the front of the queue?
The point I'm making is that the conditions they are being kept in are shameful, and appalling, and that they have nowhere else to go, despite your naive belief that they're free to wander wherever they wish.
The "where" in this case is less important than the "how". People were placed there because of impairments or support needs and then not provided with the care they needed. Now, part of this is simply the sharp end of the utter disaster that is the social care system (which only appears to keep going because relatives wear themselves to threads covering the gaps) but, given the needs of the residents/inmates, staffing it with security rather than carers is unconscionable.
I found a Guardian article in which the chief exec of the charity Care4Calais describes the Bibby Stockholm as a 'floating prison'. I think the intentional inverted commas mean that it (when/if it has people residing in it) can be considered to have an equivalent status to the migrants as if it were (in legal terms) really a prison. So trying to mediate between Telford and Bishops Finger.
I'd start by processing applications at a reasonable pace, so that asylum seekers become refugees in a period of a few weeks. Then you only need to accommodate asylum seekers for a few weeks, which massively reduces the number of asylum seekers who need housing. It also reduces the mental impact on asylum seekers of being housed for months in what are effective prisons - small rooms, limited facilities within the hotel or camp, limited options for leaving. At that point, with only a few people to house for short periods the "where" becomes a lot less important for the majority - there would, of course, be extra considerations still needed for asylum seekers with additional needs, or those who for whatever reason have more complex claims that can't be handled in a week or two.
My preference would be for accommodation that's self-catering (giving asylum seekers the activity of cooking, with funds available for them to visit local shops to buy ingredients), located within towns where there's already a community of refugees and other migrants from their home nation (ideally, home town/region) which gives an automatic support network along with legal support etc.
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Trying not to Junior Host but this is Hell. We can use such metaphors as prison ships. This government has a deserved reputation for housing people in awful conditions. That breaks human rights law. Their attitude seems to be slightly nicer than Nazis, and yes I stand by that statement. They are following that playbook. Create a group to be hated. To be less than human so they can effectively do what they like with them. If they were serious they would invest in the system so that these poor people can dealt with humanly. It starts this way, and grows worse. The Home Secretary in particular should be up before human rights courts. Her department has treated these people badly, in an inhuman manner.
Rant over.
You need to mind your manners - accusing me of lying is a personal attack, which I resent most strongly.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Trying not to Junior Host but this is Hell. We can use such metaphors as prison ships. This government has a deserved reputation for housing people in awful conditions. That breaks human rights law. Their attitude seems to be slightly nicer than Nazis, and yes I stand by that statement. They are following that playbook. Create a group to be hated. To be less than human so they can effectively do what they like with them. If they were serious they would invest in the system so that these poor people can dealt with humanly. It starts this way, and grows worse. The Home Secretary in particular should be up before human rights courts. Her department has treated these people badly, in an inhuman manner.
Rant over.
Well, I wouldn't disagree with what you say.
However, there are people who say that the so-called *illegals* aren't effectively prisoners, and that they are free to go where they wish. Those who say this are no better than the egregious Cruella and her minions. It is they who spout lies, often garnered from such Oracles of Truth as right-wing *news* outlets.
I found a Guardian article in which the chief exec of the charity Care4Calais describes the Bibby Stockholm as a 'floating prison'. I think the intentional inverted commas mean that it (when/if it has people residing in it) can be considered to have an equivalent status to the migrants as if it were (in legal terms) really a prison. So trying to mediate between Telford and Bishops Finger.
That was more-or-less what I was getting at when I used the phrase - living where I do, prison ships are a matter of local history (and the bones of those who died aboard them are being released from their remote and unmarked graves by coastal erosion...).
Now they’ve apparently noticed that WhatsApp messages aren’t archived, where’s the assurance that important government business is no longer going to be done on unrecorded unminuted systems ?
I'd start by processing applications at a reasonable pace, so that asylum seekers become refugees in a period of a few weeks. Then you only need to accommodate asylum seekers for a few weeks, which massively reduces the number of asylum seekers who need housing.
Yes, but they have access to other funds - in particular they can work, and so earn the money to rent or buy their own home. They have much more freedom to move to find a home near, or with, family and friends already in the UK (which is one of the reasons why many choose the UK over other safe countries they could have fled to) with the support structures that includes.
The main rooms at the Con conference seem to be quite empty. The fringe groups such as as Liz Truss appear to be full
Disturbing isn't it?
Some 60 MPs are said to have pledged their undying allegiance to The Lettuce, which is disturbing - but there's no guarantee that all of them will still be MPs after the next General Election...
The conference as a whole does indeed appear to be poorly attended.
Perhaps only the swivel-eyed loons have bothered to turn up?
Conferences are big party fundraisers - tickets from those attending being part of that, along with all the sponsors and stalls. Low attendance would mean a reduced income this year, and possibly more significantly less interest from sponsors and stalls in future years ... this could be a significant hit to party finances. It would be a shame if the Conservatives no longer had the money to pay others to campaign, and had to start relying on members and volunteers to go out and talk to people to get votes.
I did read one report that said there were far fewer stalls, sponsors, businesses etc. at this year's conference, but that the Labour conference was well booked-up...
Conferences are big party fundraisers - tickets from those attending being part of that, along with all the sponsors and stalls. Low attendance would mean a reduced income this year, and possibly more significantly less interest from sponsors and stalls in future years ... this could be a significant hit to party finances. It would be a shame if the Conservatives no longer had the money to pay others to campaign, and had to start relying on members and volunteers to go out and talk to people to get votes.
Particularly as the gammons can't walk that far and the blue rinse brigade will wear out their zimmer frames if they try.
Now they’ve apparently noticed that WhatsApp messages aren’t archived, where’s the assurance that important government business is no longer going to be done on unrecorded unminuted systems ?
In the days before social media such business would have been done via unrecorded unminuted face-to-face conversations. No doubt quite a lot of it still is. Do you consider that to be equally bad?
Now they’ve apparently noticed that WhatsApp messages aren’t archived, where’s the assurance that important government business is no longer going to be done on unrecorded unminuted systems ?
In the days before social media such business would have been done via unrecorded unminuted face-to-face conversations. No doubt quite a lot of it still is. Do you consider that to be equally bad?
Official government business is not meant to be, one of the reasons they are supposed to use official systems is so it can be archived for historical records - even if they institute a hundred year rule, you are supposed to be able to find out what actually happened eventually.
Quite apart from party politics, it’s important for government to know what things tried in the past have succeeded and failed etc.
Conferences are big party fundraisers - tickets from those attending being part of that, along with all the sponsors and stalls. Low attendance would mean a reduced income this year, and possibly more significantly less interest from sponsors and stalls in future years ... this could be a significant hit to party finances. It would be a shame if the Conservatives no longer had the money to pay others to campaign, and had to start relying on members and volunteers to go out and talk to people to get votes.
Particularly as the gammons can't walk that far and the blue rinse brigade will wear out their zimmer frames if they try.
I did read one report that said there were far fewer stalls, sponsors, businesses etc. at this year's conference, but that the Labour conference was well booked-up...
I think it was a passing comment in one of the many items dealing with the tory clusterfuck conference, but I regret that I cannot oblige you with a link right now. I'm really sorry about that, as I know how interested you are in getting the Facts.
If you care to Google the Guardian's UK news pages, I expect you'll be able to find it.
Oops - that article seems to be behind a paywall. However, if you Google Labour beats Tories in conference battle to lure business exhibitors you may be able to read it for free,
Worth a try, if you think the FT is reliable, and not a spouter of lies.
Oops - that article seems to be behind a paywall. However, if you Google Labour beats Tories in conference battle to lure business exhibitors you may be able to read it for free,
Worth a try, if you think the FT is reliable, and not a spouter of lies.
The BBC has found Farage lurking at the conference. How come he/s there, and what is he up to, one wonders?
I assume he's there speaking and attending fringe events, and presumably finding that many of the conference attendees are friendly to his points of view.
Comments
Exactly, the rich put them there and they only have themselves to blame, they need to pull their socks up, put their back into it, pull their finger out, sort themselves out.
Quite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmj0JFGqE30
Shameful, and the responsibility is Cruella's:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/01/home-office-centre-for-disabled-asylum-seekers-care-home
When, O when, will this awful person GO...?
You need to stop spouting lies. No prison ships are being used.
The reference, in case you'd missed it, is to the Bibby Stockholm, which has been described as nothing more-nor-less than an updated version of the prison ships of the 18th and 19th centuries.
If you confine people to a vessel floating in the water precisely how is that different from a floating prison? Is it that no-one on board has been convicted of a crime?
It is not a prison ship.
It is not intended to confine anyone on these vessels. They are merely a floating hotel.
Merely a floating hotel, indeed.
Are they at liberty to leave and live somewhere else?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/01/refugee-activists-house-in-home-office-raid-for-unknown-persons
From that report:
They left without finding anyone hiding in his home and gave him a Home Office form, seen by the Observer, stating they were searching for “unknown illegal persons”.
My italics.
So there we have it, in print - there are officially people who are somehow illegal. Quite what they're supposed to do about it, in order to become legal, is another matter.
The government provides free accomodation for asylum seekers. If they chose to move out of the accomodation provided, they are cannot be prevented from doing so.
Please read the link I provided in my previous post, which will tell you just what some of this free accommodation amounts to.
You will, if you read the link, note that this is how the government you seem so keen to support treats vulnerable disabled people. Something to be proud of? I think not, but YMMV.
I provided a link earlier today reporting on the appalling conditions in a former care home, whose unfortunate residents really do not have any alternative, other than the streets, or death.
Perhaps that's what the fascists and the gammon actually want? At least, the horrid illegal people could then be swept up, and buried out of the sight of True-Blue Englishmen™ in common graves filled with lime.
There are videos on YouTube, dating from the 1940s, which show how it's done.
I have read the report. There is a long queue to have asyslum applications investigated. These poor people should be at the front of the queue.
The point I'm making is that the conditions they are being kept in are shameful, and appalling, and that they have nowhere else to go, despite your naive belief that they're free to wander wherever they wish.
The "where" in this case is less important than the "how". People were placed there because of impairments or support needs and then not provided with the care they needed. Now, part of this is simply the sharp end of the utter disaster that is the social care system (which only appears to keep going because relatives wear themselves to threads covering the gaps) but, given the needs of the residents/inmates, staffing it with security rather than carers is unconscionable.
My preference would be for accommodation that's self-catering (giving asylum seekers the activity of cooking, with funds available for them to visit local shops to buy ingredients), located within towns where there's already a community of refugees and other migrants from their home nation (ideally, home town/region) which gives an automatic support network along with legal support etc.
Trying not to Junior Host but this is Hell. We can use such metaphors as prison ships. This government has a deserved reputation for housing people in awful conditions. That breaks human rights law. Their attitude seems to be slightly nicer than Nazis, and yes I stand by that statement. They are following that playbook. Create a group to be hated. To be less than human so they can effectively do what they like with them. If they were serious they would invest in the system so that these poor people can dealt with humanly. It starts this way, and grows worse. The Home Secretary in particular should be up before human rights courts. Her department has treated these people badly, in an inhuman manner.
Rant over.
Well, I wouldn't disagree with what you say.
However, there are people who say that the so-called *illegals* aren't effectively prisoners, and that they are free to go where they wish. Those who say this are no better than the egregious Cruella and her minions. It is they who spout lies, often garnered from such Oracles of Truth as right-wing *news* outlets.
That was more-or-less what I was getting at when I used the phrase - living where I do, prison ships are a matter of local history (and the bones of those who died aboard them are being released from their remote and unmarked graves by coastal erosion...).
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/02/sunak-fails-to-hand-whatsapp-messages-from-time-as-chancellor-to-covid-inquiry
Sunak promised 'integrity and accountability at every level' when he was installed. How's that working out?
Disturbing isn't it?
Quite. And Boris before her.
Johnson, unlike Truss, also had overwhelming support among tory MPs.
Do refugees not need to be housed?
Some 60 MPs are said to have pledged their undying allegiance to The Lettuce, which is disturbing - but there's no guarantee that all of them will still be MPs after the next General Election...
The conference as a whole does indeed appear to be poorly attended.
Perhaps only the swivel-eyed loons have bothered to turn up?
Particularly as the gammons can't walk that far and the blue rinse brigade will wear out their zimmer frames if they try.
In the days before social media such business would have been done via unrecorded unminuted face-to-face conversations. No doubt quite a lot of it still is. Do you consider that to be equally bad?
But it is alwao worth remembering that Sunakstood against Truss and lost. So his support in Toryland is very dubious.
Official government business is not meant to be, one of the reasons they are supposed to use official systems is so it can be archived for historical records - even if they institute a hundred year rule, you are supposed to be able to find out what actually happened eventually.
Quite apart from party politics, it’s important for government to know what things tried in the past have succeeded and failed etc.
What was your source ?
I think it was a passing comment in one of the many items dealing with the tory clusterfuck conference, but I regret that I cannot oblige you with a link right now. I'm really sorry about that, as I know how interested you are in getting the Facts.
If you care to Google the Guardian's UK news pages, I expect you'll be able to find it.
https://www.ft.com/content/5a2da013-2a2a-4ab8-b8d1-1ab2fdcc6297
Worth a try, if you think the FT is reliable, and not a spouter of lies.
That's very helpful.
I assume he's there speaking and attending fringe events, and presumably finding that many of the conference attendees are friendly to his points of view.