Sure, I often wonder how much 'agency' any of us actually have and yes, I'm also suspicious of 'pull yourself together!' rhetoric or the 'trickle-down effect' and so on.
I'm reminded of Hopkins.
'Despair! Despair! Despair!'
And yet ...
I'm going to say something very trite, but it's another one of these both/and things perhaps.
It's often said that those who 'survived' best in the POW camps were the ones who had some kind of routine - shaving even though they didn't need to - or some kind of faith or ideology that gave shape and meaning.
But they were still POWs.
I'm feeling quite groggy today. I've picked up some kind of rash, either from insect bites or some kind of allergic reaction to something in the garden. I've nipped to the shops (one open) but probably won't see anyone else all day. I've prepared the first session of the coming term for my poetry group, even though it doesn't start for a few weeks, and aim to do some much needed housework.
That'll keep me busy and fill the day.
But I'm still alone.
I'm off to an ecumenical conference later in the week ('Now that would be an ecumenical matter,' Father Jack). Then I'll come home. I'll still be alone.
But at least there's the conference.
At least I've a home to go to. Unlike the bloke with the blankets outside the pharmacy this morning.
I recently learned that my ex-wife died this summer at 64, We had not been in touch in a long time, and she had remarried and been widowed, but she was still using my surname. All this hit me hard and makes me feel old; I never dreamed that she would not outlive me.
@Gamma Gamaliel it's that default position that gets me, as I think I said. Doing things, going away, is fine, but I recharge most easily at home, and it would suit me better to share this with someone more of the time than I do.
Yes, I know, I'm being rather "glass half empty". The thing is that if I don't, I barge on obliviously from day to day, occasion to occasion, and don't see the background, which may become the foreground at any time.
I sometimes wonder whether it's worth going away or doing anything new or different as I don't have anyone close to share it with any more.
I'm always having imaginary conversations in my head with people I know or knew. I don't know whether that's 'normal' or healthy/unhealthy or helpful or otherwise. It just happens. It how I 'process' things.
It's interesting that Plato expressed things through 'dialogues'. I think early apologetics did the same.
But I know that if I don’t things would be even worse.
Sure, it 'got' to me on holiday recently that most of the group I was with- none of whom I'd met before - were couples - even if somewhat 'dysfunctional' ones to some extent. I'd go back to my room alone, got back to an empty house.
There's no way round that.
I have to work with the difficulty.
I'm not going to join dating agencies or expose myself to the 'market' as it were but would be happy if, 'Some enchanted evening ...'
But the likelihood of that is pretty remote and I'd rather be 'Surprised by Joy' as it were than make the mistake of getting my hopes up every time I attend a conference or event only for them to be cruelly dashed.
I am where I am, a widower who misses his wife terribly and that isn't going to change. I just have to deal with it.
I can't speak for anyone else of course. We all have our own crosses to bear.
Indeed. Ultimate respect and compassion. And yes we do all have crosses to bear - I'm trying to talk myself into some lightening of the cross I'm carrying, both immediate experience and for the future. Not something I do easily, which is whence the amount of words.
One thing I thought might be a possible conversation space is the gym… but not so much. There are a couple of people I say good morning to, and maybe ‘how is it going’ but that is about it.
Maybe I missed the class in being a ‘gym bro’ 🤣
Maybe I should try a class or two - has anyone found some passing conversation spaces in and amongst exercise classes?
(I am happy going to the gym for fitness anyway - so it does not really have to have another purpose).
One thing I thought might be a possible conversation space is the gym… but not so much. There are a couple of people I say good morning to, and maybe ‘how is it going’ but that is about it.
Maybe I missed the class in being a ‘gym bro’ 🤣
Maybe I should try a class or two - has anyone found some passing conversation spaces in and amongst exercise classes?
(I am happy going to the gym for fitness anyway - so it does not really have to have another purpose).
One of my four daughters is currently single and lives alone. She has made a friend through her Pilates class and they now go for coffee etc together.
I think classes would probably be better places than trying to chat to people exercising individually - you can chat before and after, talk about what they think of the classes, offer to do something after it’s open etc. Whereas women particularly, may feel vulnerable if approached by a stranger when they are doing their own thing in the gym.
Just to mention - I don’t approach people at the gym, but there are instances where you need to share equipment where some talk is normal, and after about a year you seem to arrive at good morning… 🤷🏼♂️
And although I am the last person to hit on women, I am cognisant of feelings of vulnerability. Lord knows a gay man in an average gym has his own vulnerability too - which is perhaps why I am (too) reticent about talking to guys too.
I think maybe a Zumba class or something like that might be good fun, so I will look up that.
Team sports of some kind might be an option if you are that way inclined.
Classes and things like book-clubs are probably better than individual gym workout sessions when it comes to striking up conversations.
I'm a reasonably gregarious bloke and tend to strike up conversations with people in shops, on buses and trains. I'm always careful though when it comes to women on their own as I don't want them to feel intimidated.
It depends on the context, though. Time of day. Whether there are other people around.
There is a difference, of course, between passing the time of day and small talk and making pals.
I'm reasonably well known around here from my time on the town and Borough councils and involvement with voluntary arts groups and amateur dramatics.
So people will sometimes engage me in conversation about those activities.
I've found that the amateur dramatics stuff - all the drama occurs off-stage - hasn't led to friendships outside of rehearsals and performances. You feel a close bond with your fellow thesps while the show's on but that seems to dissipate once it's finished.
Equally, I find most 'church friends' tend to be confined to churchy activity and I tend not to see them outside of that - with one or two exceptions.
The same with people I've met through ramblers groups.
But all these contacts are 'better than nothing' as it were.
Just get out and about while you can and you'll make connections.
My yoga class (generally ladies from 30s-70s, though we have occasional blokes joining too) meets for coffee afterwards in the same building and everyone is welcome and it is very friendly. We even meet for the usual coffee and chat over the summer when there isn’t a class. Outside of church (which meets 3 miles away) and my husband, they are the only people I have a proper in person conversation with all week as I work from home and am quite reclusive. The older women also meet up outside yoga for book groups and occasional outings and I could join them if I wanted too. But I am restricted as they live in other villages and I do not drive and don’t like to rely on others.
There is an additional difficulty of my needing to be careful how I socialise due to my bipolar disorder - I can find interactions overwhelming (despite my finding talking to people easy) and other people can’t rely on me for reciprocal support as I might not cope. This makes establishing long term friendships difficult, though I am good friends with our neighbours which helps. In term time there are irregular meetings of local church friends but I really need a regular routine for stability.
If anything were to happen to my husband I think I would join the local sewing group and attend the monthly village history talks so that I interact with others more and make local friends.
Sounds like you've thought these things through and have a good grasp on things, @Heavenlyannie.
I'm wondering about joining a French class through U3A or similar. I can get by on school boy French but always feel I've got ghosts to lay and ground to recover.
I was good at French and German at school but disappointed my teachers by falling in with a 'bad crowd' and messing about.
It may sound daft but I feel I 'owe' it to them and to myself to pick up where I left off, even 50 years later.
When I had bereavement counselling a few years back now, the counsellor encouraged me to put 'as much effort' into securing my own well-being and organising some kind of social life as I was, at that time, into my council and freelance work.
I've always found that difficult.
I can be a bit 'hair-shirt'. When I lost my wife I'd feel guilty for enjoying myself as she wasn't around to enjoy things with me.
I do have a tendency to 'beat myself up' and the counsellor felt I was trying to 'punish myself' in some way. I don’t know about that but I can see why she got that impression.
But these things take time. We have to try different things and see what works for us.
I attended a particular t'ai chi class on and off for years. It even had a tea break in the middle - though unfortunately these were often taken up with announcements of various events and workshops, local, national and international. Nevertheless there were several people I could have interesting chats with.
But it never led to any contact outwith the class, and they tended to leave after a time - as I did eventually - because of a feeling of clique, or the rotation of teachers would give us the egotistical or the dim one.
In the last few months four of my acquaintances have been widowed, which means we have something a bit more in common. One is also a church choir member, but we are not that close, and, dare I say it, I feel she drags me down in a very negative sort of way, always going on about her age and her problems; another is a also a churchgoer and we have shared lifts and I feel there is a potential for further friendship to develop there.
I made three approaches to members of my local choral society to meet up during the summer break, without success- that’s a bit discouraging. My other choir is more eclectic and I don’t know anyone well enough to meet socially, though I had a lovely chat with one of them at a Come and Sing yesterday.
I love my u3a French conversation group. We don’t meet socially outside the group but as our sole purpose is conversation we get to know each other very well. It is one of the best things I have done this past year. I recommend it to you @Gamma Gamaliel .
Reading through this thread, identifying and feeling great empathy.
My partner of 30 years died at the end of May and while I'd like to say there are good days and bad days, the reality now is that there are bad days and worse days. I find the loneliness excruciating. There are friends, former neighbours, kindly people I know well, but I can't talk to my partner or hear her voice. Everything feels very empty and hollow. Faith is a help but only in an abstract way right now, each day has to be endured.
It will get easier, I have been through traumatic loss before, but grief is the most unpredictable and unmanageable of emotions.
@MaryLouise I don’t want to offer prayer or platitudes, but neither do I want to pass by. So I will just say that I hear you, and understand about the unmanageability of grief. It is perhaps a very small comfort that the Ship is a place where grief and pain are understood and honoured, and no-one has to pretend to be OK if they are not.
I don’t have the same experience as you, but unexpected loss - in my family and when a student decided to leave this world - have hit me hard in the past in unpredictable ways.
And there is no rule about when the grieving stops (or recedes into the background). For example, it’s years ago now, but a song that was played at a student’s memorial - while we saw a photo slide show of their happiest times (all at my university) - is a song I can’t listen to at all now. It was playing in a grocery store earlier this week, and I just had to cut my shopping short and get out, because I was sobbing.
All of which is not to offer comparison, but just to say that I do feel for you. And I know it’s hardest when you are just past all of the busy-ness of necessary arrangements.
My Pilates session is one-to-one, but quite often there is time for a chat between the end of my session and the beginning of the next. Most weeks, the person after me is an engaging 46-year old lady, whose appearance belies the fact that she has some severe medical issues. The 10 minutes or so of chat with her (and with our Torturer) is a highlight of my day. I now feel that my week begins on Pilates Day, which is Tuesday.
Having been a singleton for over 20 years (though I've had *ahem* interesting moments in that time), I'm used to being on my own for most of the 24 hours/7 days. I think I must be by nature a Solitary Soul, as this has never really bothered me...and I'm very fortunate to have caring, but unobtrusive, neighbours who do look out for me, and who help me if needed.
Last Saturday was my birthday, but the weather was so dire that I stayed in my berth for most of the day (see what I did there? ), and IIRC didn't see or speak to another Human Being until I went to the Co-Op on Sunday - possibly 36 or 48 hours without contact with anyone. I can handle this - I'm used to it - but I can appreciate how awful it could be for someone else.
My Family is scattered about this country, and France, but my sister recently cast spells onto my Smartphone, so that I'm now linked to our WhatsApp group (mostly my brother, sister-in-law, their daughter, and my sister). There is more-or-less daily (sort of) contact by those necromantic means...
Much of this thread has been about grief, perhaps because events causing grief can leave one alone. There are other possibilities. Suppose you graduate from college, happily find a job in a distant town and move there, alone. At least for a while, you may be lonely. Or maybe you find yourself in a hospital bed for a week. Or maybe you like hiking, so you go on a long trek by yourself, getting away from it all. You would be alone and might be lonely, and nonetheless have a good time.
Much of this thread has been about grief, perhaps because events causing grief can leave one alone. There are other possibilities. Suppose you graduate from college, happily find a job in a distant town and move there, alone. At least for a while, you may be lonely. Or maybe you find yourself in a hospital bed for a week. Or maybe you like hiking, so you go on a long trek by yourself, getting away from it all. You would be alone and might be lonely, and nonetheless have a good time.
Indeed you might, though I know from personal experience that it's hard to be lonely in hospital, at least here in the UK! A month's worth (back in 2016) allowed me to meet, and talk with, a lot of lovely, interesting people from various assorted parts of the world - and that includes other patients, as well as the staff!
Ah yes, it's your first job, in a town where you know nobody, it's winter (in Scotland), you've spoken to nobody since you left work on Friday, it's now Sunday afternoon. You've been to church, but that didn't lead to any socialising. Your room is north facing and has a small two-bar electric fire. You are sinking slowly into the torpor of hypothermia.
Fortunately the landlady came into speak to me about something, and provided an extra heater.
Reading through this thread, identifying and feeling great empathy.
My partner of 30 years died at the end of May and while I'd like to say there are good days and bad days, the reality now is that there are bad days and worse days. I find the loneliness excruciating. There are friends, former neighbours, kindly people I know well, but I can't talk to my partner or hear her voice. Everything feels very empty and hollow. Faith is a help but only in an abstract way right now, each day has to be endured.
It will get easier, I have been through traumatic loss before, but grief is the most unpredictable and unmanageable of emotions.
Oh dear God do I relate. (For those who don't know, my partner Cubby--aka QuakerCub on the old Ship--passed from Covid in early 2021.) Prayers ascending.
And prayers for everyone else here struggling, grieving, and the like.
I don't remember if I posted this, but I'm starting to get out and be with people--even making new friends. Went to a men's club event at a bar in Tampa last Saturday!
Mom is 91 and lives in a comfortable senior apartment community that provides a lot of basic support like house-keeping and daily, communal meals. The place has a lot going for it. But after living there a few years, the reality of living there, knowing that all her neighbors -- her friends -- will eventually die within the next few years is no longer theoretical. And it's wearing on her.
"I don't want to be (feel like) a burden."
Damn! I hate that that's our (US) cultural view of aging. I hate it for her, but also for me and my husband, and eventually our girls.
I'm not interested in joining a commune, but a multigenerational co-op or co-housing community sounds possibly promising. Or something like @la vie en rouge or @Doublethink mentioned. I suppose once the girls are both grown and fledged, which I suspect will be fairly soon, would be a good time for us to start looking at possibilities.
Writing this, and reading over my shipmates' stories here, I wonder, if our (US) concept of the sharply defined nuclear family is not only too limited, but also harmful in it's limitations. I know quite a few people who have had to construct their own families from people who love them and whom they can trust -- unlike their biological family members. Yet those selected families have none of the legal and financial protections that biological family members do.
I hope the next few generations will start to answer these concerns in human, thoughtful, productive ways.
Mom is 91 and lives in a comfortable senior apartment community that provides a lot of basic support like house-keeping and daily, communal meals. The place has a lot going for it. But after living there a few years, the reality of living there, knowing that all her neighbors -- her friends -- will eventually die within the next few years is no longer theoretical. And it's wearing on her.
"I don't want to be (feel like) a burden."
Damn! I hate that that's our (US) cultural view of aging. I hate it for her, but also for me and my husband, and eventually our girls.
I'm not interested in joining a commune, but a multigenerational co-op or co-housing community sounds possibly promising. Or something like @la vie en rouge or @Doublethink mentioned. I suppose once the girls are both grown and fledged, which I suspect will be fairly soon, would be a good time for us to start looking at possibilities.
Writing this, and reading over my shipmates' stories here, I wonder, if our (US) concept of the sharply defined nuclear family is not only too limited, but also harmful in it's limitations. I know quite a few people who have had to construct their own families from people who love them and whom they can trust -- unlike their biological family members. Yet those selected families have none of the legal and financial protections that biological family members do.
I hope the next few generations will start to answer these concerns in human, thoughtful, productive ways.
Re “ I hope the next few generations will start to answer these concerns in human, thoughtful, productive ways”—God, I hope so. I don’t think I have any bio-family who would take me in if I became wholly destitute.
So-called "intergenerational housing" is a thing in big cities here. A lot of older people live alone in large apartments, so they offer a room for a modest rent to a young person on a low income. The exact arrangements vary, but typically the young person might provide help with e.g. grocery shopping. In other cases they agree to eat a certain number of meals together or stay in for a couple of evenings a week to chat or play board games or whatever.
It strikes me as a very satisfactory arrangement for all concerned.
That's interesting. Can I ask how one typically generates trust in such a situation? Inviting someone to share your living space is a rather intimate proposition, and to me would require absolute trust over a broad range of areas. How does one typically achieve that level of trust with a stranger who is very different in age, and probably also very different in background and cultural assumptions?
I just saw a report by the Surgeon General on NPR news that loneliness was now a chronic problem among young parents in the USA. They also feel overwhelmed by life as parents.
Reading through this thread, identifying and feeling great empathy.
My partner of 30 years died at the end of May and while I'd like to say there are good days and bad days, the reality now is that there are bad days and worse days. I find the loneliness excruciating. There are friends, former neighbours, kindly people I know well, but I can't talk to my partner or hear her voice. Everything feels very empty and hollow. Faith is a help but only in an abstract way right now, each day has to be endured.
It will get easier, I have been through traumatic loss before, but grief is the most unpredictable and unmanageable of emotions.
So sorry to hear this. 😢
I'm not sure it does get 'easier'. We simply adapt and learn to 'manage'our loss to some extent. We can't do that entirely of course.
Yes, some times are easier than others and it's hard to know why that is. I've not noticed any discernable pattern. As you say, it's unpredictable.
I'm feeling pretty down about it all at the moment, despite filling my time with useful and constructive things.
But that doesn't help you, of course. Nothing wr can say can do that. But we can empathise. We can care.
It's a funny thing but in some ways I feel in an enviable position but not one I'd have chosen.
My health is OK - for the time being - I have relatively light responsibilities. I'm financially secure. I've been to Madagascar just now and could afford to travel more if I wished. I can pursue interests, research things, write, go to conferences and retreats ...
And yet, and yet there's always this dull ache, this void that cannot be filled by activity alone.
Pious platitudes don't help. Pray more. Read the scriptures. Volunteer.
Yes, we can do all these things. I will do all these things. But all of us who have loved and lost can never fully staunch that wound. But we have to carry on.
It's a funny thing but in some ways I feel in an enviable position but not one I'd have chosen.
My health is OK - for the time being - I have relatively light responsibilities. I'm financially secure. I've been to Madagascar just now and could afford to travel more if I wished. I can pursue interests, research things, write, go to conferences and retreats ...
And yet, and yet there's always this dull ache, this void that cannot be filled by activity alone.
Pious platitudes don't help. Pray more. Read the scriptures. Volunteer.
Yes, we can do all these things. I will do all these things. But all of us who have loved and lost can never fully staunch that wound. But we have to carry on.
In related news, one of my very best friends is visiting the area this week—his wife passed from cancer two years ago, just as my Cubby passed three years ago, and we’ve been there for each other in our respective struggles and grieving. We talk every day on the phone with each other. It helps a lot to have someone who relates.
I recently read an online article giving ten advantages of the single life. I could see the value in all of them. It didn’t list the drawbacks, but sometimes we really need positivity.
I have a new good friend. (We moved here two years ago) and she's been a widow for seven years. She's met a new man and is enjoying life, 'tho she says it feels very strange. I like him very much and so does Mr Boogs, which is unusual - Mr Boogs doesn't make new friends. I'm not sure he knows how!
I have never lived alone, but very much enjoy time alone. Mr Boogs goes for long two or three week bike rides and that suits me - with the benefit of enjoying his company again when he returns.
I recently read an online article giving ten advantages of the single life. I could see the value in all of them. It didn’t list the drawbacks, but sometimes we really need positivity.
That article sounds really helpful - do you have a link (or the title of the article)? I agree that positivity helps sometimes, so it would be great to to read it.
Perhaps we could all also offer our own advantages of the single life too?
Here are some of mine:
- Eating what and when you like
- All movies, cultural trips and TV are always your personal preference
- Being available to friends or colleagues at short notice
I suspect our level of positivity would very much depend on whether we have 'chosen' to be alone as a positive and intentional lifestyle choice or whether we've had it 'imposed' on us through bereavement, break-up or other reasons.
Ok, even if it's the latter we can still make the best of the cards we've been dealt, but it doesn't feel that way to me right now.
I remember a friend remarking on some outing she'd taken purely for her own enjoyment, unconnected with any family or social responsibilities, what a rare treat.
I agreed that I wished for such freedom - just not for what it lay the other side of.
I recently read an online article giving ten advantages of the single life. I could see the value in all of them. It didn’t list the drawbacks, but sometimes we really need positivity.
Like @Boogie I very much enjoy time alone and relish having the house to myself when my husband's away, but I know that's far cry from knowing he won't ever be coming back.
Of course it won’t be the right time for everyone to reflect on positives, but it may be helpful for others or at a different time.
Grief must take its own time, of course. I don’t mean at all to make light of that - and I hope that I didn’t create that impression.
For some of us, though, we come to aloneness a different way. In my case I didn’t seek it but I have just not managed to have a relationship for the last 20 years. Not so much as a single romantic kiss. I can’t see the next 20 (if I am spared) will be any different.
I can’t live another year (let alone another decade or two!) as if there will be someone out there to ‘complete me’.
I don’t want a single particle of pity or prayer for that.
Instead, I am determined to make something of being alone - of finding ways to make solitude meaningful.
That doesn’t mean being a recluse - I do have a few friends, and I aim to make more if possible - but they generally have their spouses, children and so on.
So if there are positives to being alone you have found, I am sure that I and many others would be glad to hear about them. If that’s not for you right now, that’s fine too.
I’m sorry, I can’t now locate the article. It came via a daily email and after reading, I deleted it.
I recall: choosing what you want to eat, controlling the remote, developing new time-consuming interests; having your own space, choosing the decor, redecorating whenever you change your mind; not having to work another person’s needs into your day eg not needing to break off to fit in with another, delaying eating to suit yourself, eating meals at any time and in any order.
A type of holiday not possible with a family or maybe a previous partner. Playing music of any genre at any time( tuba at midnight). Going to bed/ getting up when you like, staying in slobbing around all day, staying out late clubbing, time to read or meditate or pray uninterrupted. The freedom to just be you. Becoming more resourceful because needing to acquire skills you never had before.
I think it all comes down to the fact that, at all times, the space you live in will reflect you. It's both the greatest positive and the hardest element to deal with.
If advice is remotely welcome, it's literally a matter of learning to live with yourself. That is, as they say, all the law and the prophets.
I find that singing loudly, knowing that it's not necessarily a beautiful sound, is something I only do when I'm the only one in the house. Similarly with playing music, especially new tunes, or repeating the same phrase over and over if necessary, or even just stuff I know my husband doesn't enjoy.
Comments
Things are bloody difficult at times. Mostly I mutter to myself -
aye wi the sweirt sodgers
That niver wished tae dee
And anelie marched the forrart road
Sen onie back they cudna see -
source
Sure, I often wonder how much 'agency' any of us actually have and yes, I'm also suspicious of 'pull yourself together!' rhetoric or the 'trickle-down effect' and so on.
I'm reminded of Hopkins.
'Despair! Despair! Despair!'
And yet ...
I'm going to say something very trite, but it's another one of these both/and things perhaps.
It's often said that those who 'survived' best in the POW camps were the ones who had some kind of routine - shaving even though they didn't need to - or some kind of faith or ideology that gave shape and meaning.
But they were still POWs.
I'm feeling quite groggy today. I've picked up some kind of rash, either from insect bites or some kind of allergic reaction to something in the garden. I've nipped to the shops (one open) but probably won't see anyone else all day. I've prepared the first session of the coming term for my poetry group, even though it doesn't start for a few weeks, and aim to do some much needed housework.
That'll keep me busy and fill the day.
But I'm still alone.
I'm off to an ecumenical conference later in the week ('Now that would be an ecumenical matter,' Father Jack). Then I'll come home. I'll still be alone.
But at least there's the conference.
At least I've a home to go to. Unlike the bloke with the blankets outside the pharmacy this morning.
At least keep in touch with people.
Yes, I know, I'm being rather "glass half empty". The thing is that if I don't, I barge on obliviously from day to day, occasion to occasion, and don't see the background, which may become the foreground at any time.
I sometimes wonder whether it's worth going away or doing anything new or different as I don't have anyone close to share it with any more.
I'm always having imaginary conversations in my head with people I know or knew. I don't know whether that's 'normal' or healthy/unhealthy or helpful or otherwise. It just happens. It how I 'process' things.
It's interesting that Plato expressed things through 'dialogues'. I think early apologetics did the same.
But I know that if I don’t things would be even worse.
Sure, it 'got' to me on holiday recently that most of the group I was with- none of whom I'd met before - were couples - even if somewhat 'dysfunctional' ones to some extent. I'd go back to my room alone, got back to an empty house.
There's no way round that.
I have to work with the difficulty.
I'm not going to join dating agencies or expose myself to the 'market' as it were but would be happy if, 'Some enchanted evening ...'
But the likelihood of that is pretty remote and I'd rather be 'Surprised by Joy' as it were than make the mistake of getting my hopes up every time I attend a conference or event only for them to be cruelly dashed.
I am where I am, a widower who misses his wife terribly and that isn't going to change. I just have to deal with it.
I can't speak for anyone else of course. We all have our own crosses to bear.
Maybe I missed the class in being a ‘gym bro’ 🤣
Maybe I should try a class or two - has anyone found some passing conversation spaces in and amongst exercise classes?
(I am happy going to the gym for fitness anyway - so it does not really have to have another purpose).
One of my four daughters is currently single and lives alone. She has made a friend through her Pilates class and they now go for coffee etc together.
Just to mention - I don’t approach people at the gym, but there are instances where you need to share equipment where some talk is normal, and after about a year you seem to arrive at good morning… 🤷🏼♂️
And although I am the last person to hit on women, I am cognisant of feelings of vulnerability. Lord knows a gay man in an average gym has his own vulnerability too - which is perhaps why I am (too) reticent about talking to guys too.
I think maybe a Zumba class or something like that might be good fun, so I will look up that.
Team sports of some kind might be an option if you are that way inclined.
Classes and things like book-clubs are probably better than individual gym workout sessions when it comes to striking up conversations.
I'm a reasonably gregarious bloke and tend to strike up conversations with people in shops, on buses and trains. I'm always careful though when it comes to women on their own as I don't want them to feel intimidated.
It depends on the context, though. Time of day. Whether there are other people around.
There is a difference, of course, between passing the time of day and small talk and making pals.
I'm reasonably well known around here from my time on the town and Borough councils and involvement with voluntary arts groups and amateur dramatics.
So people will sometimes engage me in conversation about those activities.
I've found that the amateur dramatics stuff - all the drama occurs off-stage - hasn't led to friendships outside of rehearsals and performances. You feel a close bond with your fellow thesps while the show's on but that seems to dissipate once it's finished.
Equally, I find most 'church friends' tend to be confined to churchy activity and I tend not to see them outside of that - with one or two exceptions.
The same with people I've met through ramblers groups.
But all these contacts are 'better than nothing' as it were.
Just get out and about while you can and you'll make connections.
These things happen organically.
There is an additional difficulty of my needing to be careful how I socialise due to my bipolar disorder - I can find interactions overwhelming (despite my finding talking to people easy) and other people can’t rely on me for reciprocal support as I might not cope. This makes establishing long term friendships difficult, though I am good friends with our neighbours which helps. In term time there are irregular meetings of local church friends but I really need a regular routine for stability.
If anything were to happen to my husband I think I would join the local sewing group and attend the monthly village history talks so that I interact with others more and make local friends.
I'm wondering about joining a French class through U3A or similar. I can get by on school boy French but always feel I've got ghosts to lay and ground to recover.
I was good at French and German at school but disappointed my teachers by falling in with a 'bad crowd' and messing about.
It may sound daft but I feel I 'owe' it to them and to myself to pick up where I left off, even 50 years later.
When I had bereavement counselling a few years back now, the counsellor encouraged me to put 'as much effort' into securing my own well-being and organising some kind of social life as I was, at that time, into my council and freelance work.
I've always found that difficult.
I can be a bit 'hair-shirt'. When I lost my wife I'd feel guilty for enjoying myself as she wasn't around to enjoy things with me.
I do have a tendency to 'beat myself up' and the counsellor felt I was trying to 'punish myself' in some way. I don’t know about that but I can see why she got that impression.
But these things take time. We have to try different things and see what works for us.
But it never led to any contact outwith the class, and they tended to leave after a time - as I did eventually - because of a feeling of clique, or the rotation of teachers would give us the egotistical or the dim one.
I made three approaches to members of my local choral society to meet up during the summer break, without success- that’s a bit discouraging. My other choir is more eclectic and I don’t know anyone well enough to meet socially, though I had a lovely chat with one of them at a Come and Sing yesterday.
I love my u3a French conversation group. We don’t meet socially outside the group but as our sole purpose is conversation we get to know each other very well. It is one of the best things I have done this past year. I recommend it to you @Gamma Gamaliel .
My partner of 30 years died at the end of May and while I'd like to say there are good days and bad days, the reality now is that there are bad days and worse days. I find the loneliness excruciating. There are friends, former neighbours, kindly people I know well, but I can't talk to my partner or hear her voice. Everything feels very empty and hollow. Faith is a help but only in an abstract way right now, each day has to be endured.
It will get easier, I have been through traumatic loss before, but grief is the most unpredictable and unmanageable of emotions.
I don’t have the same experience as you, but unexpected loss - in my family and when a student decided to leave this world - have hit me hard in the past in unpredictable ways.
And there is no rule about when the grieving stops (or recedes into the background). For example, it’s years ago now, but a song that was played at a student’s memorial - while we saw a photo slide show of their happiest times (all at my university) - is a song I can’t listen to at all now. It was playing in a grocery store earlier this week, and I just had to cut my shopping short and get out, because I was sobbing.
All of which is not to offer comparison, but just to say that I do feel for you. And I know it’s hardest when you are just past all of the busy-ness of necessary arrangements.
Having been a singleton for over 20 years (though I've had *ahem* interesting moments in that time), I'm used to being on my own for most of the 24 hours/7 days. I think I must be by nature a Solitary Soul, as this has never really bothered me...and I'm very fortunate to have caring, but unobtrusive, neighbours who do look out for me, and who help me if needed.
Last Saturday was my birthday, but the weather was so dire that I stayed in my berth for most of the day (see what I did there?
My Family is scattered about this country, and France, but my sister recently cast spells onto my Smartphone, so that I'm now linked to our WhatsApp group (mostly my brother, sister-in-law, their daughter, and my sister). There is more-or-less daily (sort of) contact by those necromantic means...
Indeed you might, though I know from personal experience that it's hard to be lonely in hospital, at least here in the UK! A month's worth (back in 2016) allowed me to meet, and talk with, a lot of lovely, interesting people from various assorted parts of the world - and that includes other patients, as well as the staff!
Your point is still valid, of course.
Fortunately the landlady came into speak to me about something, and provided an extra heater.
Lonely and cold has to be the nadir.
Oh dear God do I relate. (For those who don't know, my partner Cubby--aka QuakerCub on the old Ship--passed from Covid in early 2021.) Prayers ascending.
And prayers for everyone else here struggling, grieving, and the like.
"I don't want to be (feel like) a burden."
Damn! I hate that that's our (US) cultural view of aging. I hate it for her, but also for me and my husband, and eventually our girls.
I'm not interested in joining a commune, but a multigenerational co-op or co-housing community sounds possibly promising. Or something like @la vie en rouge or @Doublethink mentioned. I suppose once the girls are both grown and fledged, which I suspect will be fairly soon, would be a good time for us to start looking at possibilities.
Writing this, and reading over my shipmates' stories here, I wonder, if our (US) concept of the sharply defined nuclear family is not only too limited, but also harmful in it's limitations. I know quite a few people who have had to construct their own families from people who love them and whom they can trust -- unlike their biological family members. Yet those selected families have none of the legal and financial protections that biological family members do.
I hope the next few generations will start to answer these concerns in human, thoughtful, productive ways.
Re “ I hope the next few generations will start to answer these concerns in human, thoughtful, productive ways”—God, I hope so. I don’t think I have any bio-family who would take me in if I became wholly destitute.
That's interesting. Can I ask how one typically generates trust in such a situation? Inviting someone to share your living space is a rather intimate proposition, and to me would require absolute trust over a broad range of areas. How does one typically achieve that level of trust with a stranger who is very different in age, and probably also very different in background and cultural assumptions?
I don't think the UK and other parts of Western Europe are that far behind the US on this either.
So sorry to hear this. 😢
I'm not sure it does get 'easier'. We simply adapt and learn to 'manage'our loss to some extent. We can't do that entirely of course.
Yes, some times are easier than others and it's hard to know why that is. I've not noticed any discernable pattern. As you say, it's unpredictable.
I'm feeling pretty down about it all at the moment, despite filling my time with useful and constructive things.
But that doesn't help you, of course. Nothing wr can say can do that. But we can empathise. We can care.
It's a funny thing but in some ways I feel in an enviable position but not one I'd have chosen.
My health is OK - for the time being - I have relatively light responsibilities. I'm financially secure. I've been to Madagascar just now and could afford to travel more if I wished. I can pursue interests, research things, write, go to conferences and retreats ...
And yet, and yet there's always this dull ache, this void that cannot be filled by activity alone.
Pious platitudes don't help. Pray more. Read the scriptures. Volunteer.
Yes, we can do all these things. I will do all these things. But all of us who have loved and lost can never fully staunch that wound. But we have to carry on.
In related news, one of my very best friends is visiting the area this week—his wife passed from cancer two years ago, just as my Cubby passed three years ago, and we’ve been there for each other in our respective struggles and grieving. We talk every day on the phone with each other. It helps a lot to have someone who relates.
I have never lived alone, but very much enjoy time alone. Mr Boogs goes for long two or three week bike rides and that suits me - with the benefit of enjoying his company again when he returns.
That article sounds really helpful - do you have a link (or the title of the article)? I agree that positivity helps sometimes, so it would be great to to read it.
Perhaps we could all also offer our own advantages of the single life too?
Here are some of mine:
- Eating what and when you like
- All movies, cultural trips and TV are always your personal preference
- Being available to friends or colleagues at short notice
I am sure there must be others…
I suspect our level of positivity would very much depend on whether we have 'chosen' to be alone as a positive and intentional lifestyle choice or whether we've had it 'imposed' on us through bereavement, break-up or other reasons.
Ok, even if it's the latter we can still make the best of the cards we've been dealt, but it doesn't feel that way to me right now.
I agreed that I wished for such freedom - just not for what it lay the other side of.
Puts me in mind of a book I've never read but am intrigued by the title of - Playing the Tuba at Midnight .
Like @Boogie I very much enjoy time alone and relish having the house to myself when my husband's away, but I know that's far cry from knowing he won't ever be coming back.
Grief must take its own time, of course. I don’t mean at all to make light of that - and I hope that I didn’t create that impression.
For some of us, though, we come to aloneness a different way. In my case I didn’t seek it but I have just not managed to have a relationship for the last 20 years. Not so much as a single romantic kiss. I can’t see the next 20 (if I am spared) will be any different.
I can’t live another year (let alone another decade or two!) as if there will be someone out there to ‘complete me’.
I don’t want a single particle of pity or prayer for that.
Instead, I am determined to make something of being alone - of finding ways to make solitude meaningful.
That doesn’t mean being a recluse - I do have a few friends, and I aim to make more if possible - but they generally have their spouses, children and so on.
So if there are positives to being alone you have found, I am sure that I and many others would be glad to hear about them. If that’s not for you right now, that’s fine too.
I recall: choosing what you want to eat, controlling the remote, developing new time-consuming interests; having your own space, choosing the decor, redecorating whenever you change your mind; not having to work another person’s needs into your day eg not needing to break off to fit in with another, delaying eating to suit yourself, eating meals at any time and in any order.
A type of holiday not possible with a family or maybe a previous partner. Playing music of any genre at any time( tuba at midnight). Going to bed/ getting up when you like, staying in slobbing around all day, staying out late clubbing, time to read or meditate or pray uninterrupted. The freedom to just be you. Becoming more resourceful because needing to acquire skills you never had before.
If advice is remotely welcome, it's literally a matter of learning to live with yourself. That is, as they say, all the law and the prophets.
I hope I didn't convey the impression that you were.
I certainly 'see' where you are coming from and would ask similar questions were I in your shoes, as it were.
I'm not sure I have any answers, at least not any of the kind you are looking for.
That doesn't mean there aren't any.
That list was great, @Puzzler - I would be sorely tempted to play the Tuba at midnight, if I wasn’t so unmusical and it being way past my bedtime
But maybe I can dance in my kitchen - and sing out-of-key opera with no one around to be upset by it
Oh absolutely to the last two. Only your cooker will know your secret. And it will judge you. Mine does, I know.