Reading through this thread has both made me long to reach out to each and every one of you posting here, but also prompted me to try and be more aware of those around me who may be in a similar situation for whatever reason.
I spent most of my adult life alone, especially after my parents died, although I had support from my siblings and my friends and, of course, had two boys to keep me on my toes. I was occasionally lonely - single parenthood can be a lonely path to tread at times - but also relished my own company.
I have been in a relationship (yes, my first ever) for over eight years now and we live together and are currently looking at retiring together. Occasionally I am still lonely - my friends live far away from my man's house where I moved in during Covid, and my work hours have made it impossible to make friends locally. I'm hoping that retirement and moving to a new location in a couple of years' time (yes, back to the Island - anyone for another Wightmeet???) will provide opportunity to broaden my circle of not-online friends.
One thing that I have realised, both from reading this thread and from "inheriting" my father after my mum died, together with the fact that my man is currently away with work for three weeks: it is really important to plan ahead. There will come a day when one of us is no longer around. We love doing things together, and do share some friends, but it's important for each of us to find our own friends and pursue our own hobbies. We need to plan the layout of the kitchen cupboards etc in our new home so that, unlike here, I'm not dependant on his extra seven inches of height to reach the new pack of toilet rolls down for me! Maybe sometimes we even need to go out to a cafe alone (I find a good book or Kindle is perfect) or to the cinema alone to watch things the other doesn't fancy.
For travel, I know my sister speaks very highly of One Traveller (though it's not cheap!)
I know some charities and organisations link volunteers and others for something as simple as a phone chat once a week. My mother-out-of-law employs a cleaner, not because she does the cleaning (she really doesn't!!!) but because she's fun for a chat. Loneliness goes deeper, I know, than simply not having human contact and someone to talk to, but it's a start.
I agree, it is important to plan ahead. Some of us plan for older age, moving perhaps to a more suitable property or location, as we did. But few can bring themselves to plan for the loss of a partner. Although Mr Puzzler seemed to think he was immortal, I certainly expected to outlive him and I think I was, in a way, ready for him to die first, even though it was sooner than we expected.
The fact that we moved ten years ago to be nearer my daughter and son, and live in a very convenient location has helped me enormously.
In my case, not having a corporeal Cubby around (I trust he is with God and, as much as is permitted, with me literally in spirit) makes it harder for me to take better care of myself, especially in terms of a sleeping and eating schedule. I'm ADHD to the point that Cubby would use the phrase "hummingbird on ritalin" to describe me...
@Smudgie perhaps shipmeets could be part of the mix…
Maybe the Isle of Wight (or ‘far famed Isle of Wight’, as Jane Austen put it ) would be good for a trip one day.
I am a bit confused though, because I have a feeling I met you (and a smudglet) at a Scottish shipmeet, many years ago. Even more confusingly, I can’t remember what my ship-name was then… in my defence, it was a very long time ago!
All the planning ideas are good. My main contingency is to try to preserve some savings so I have the expenses to move to a retirement flat later in life, if I need to.
@Gamma Gamaliel I don’t have any answer on sleeping, sadly - I think it changes as you get older (I wake more in the night now). I do find that being outside in the afternoon (even just a trip to the shops) helps a wee bit.
@ChastMastr would setting timed alarms on your phone for a while help to set up a routine? Although I am not best placed to advise, since I am habitual to the verge of ritual.
When I was young I wondered why old people (ie anyone over 40) fell asleep in the afternoon. Now I know.
Two things can be pretty well guaranteed to interrupt a night's sleep - needing the loo, and taking painkillers. Then there's all the stuff in your head that keeps you awake.
I slept right through for seven hours last night, the first time for ages. Maybe because
I had had a really enjoyable evening of singing, first night back at my ( auditioned) choir, a real workout. I then allowed myself a couple of hours to wind down before bed.
I am a bit confused though, because I have a feeling I met you (and a smudglet) at a Scottish shipmeet, many years ago. Even more confusingly, I can’t remember what my ship-name was then… in my defence, it was a very long time ago!
I'd sort of been adopted and absorbed into the choir despite not reading music and found it both convivial and a good way to get 'under the bonnet' of how Orthodox services 'work', if such a thing were possible.
The choir were happy for me to do what I could as it gave a bit more 'body' to the sound even though I messed up frequently.
This was fine when everyone was there but in recent weeks with holidays and so on, the choir has been thinner than usual and that made our parish priest more aware of my musical inadequacies - although I only stayed put in order to help out. It was either that or have just two voices at times.
Consequently he booted me out rather unceremoniously before the Liturgy started this Sunday.
That stung but I'm a big boy now and I'll get over it. I found it fun while it lasted and nobody else complained. I'll return to the pews with a better understanding of how the services hang together and will concentrate on serving the parish in other ways. The choir don't really need me.
I wasn't best pleased with the way it was done, to put it mildly. I'd have preferred it if he'd quietly taken me aside after the service last week rather than booting me off just before the service started and giving me unholy thoughts to wrestle with before communion.
He means well but tact and diplomacy aren't his strong points.
That was cruel and inappropriate behaviour. Sorry you were on the receiving end. I admire your positive take.
I am feeling a bit miffed. I have just had a text from a choir friend who had promised to meet up in the ten week summer break. She has apologised but been too busy, with frequent trips away with her husband. Two others I contacted replied merely acknowledging my suggestion of meeting but did not get back to me. Not best pleased. This choir restarts tomorrow.
It's never a great feeling, to be slighted, whether explicitly or by it being made obvious you are a lesser priority. Worse when there's no compensating voice to say 'well, I love you'.
@Gamma Gamaliel that really sucks. A parish priest ought to know better how to handle conversations, and to know what really matters.
@Puzzler that is really disappointing. You would think people could find the space for a cup of coffee in 10 weeks!
In both cases, @Firenze seems to hit the nail on the head.
I sometimes wonder if people lack the empathy to realise they are causing hurt, or just don't care anyway. Then again, perhaps it does not help to dwell on that.
@Gamma Gamaliel, the same thing happened to me at age 10. The good thing was that the new choir director tested each of us, and indeed, I could not very well carry a tune. However, he did it nicely and invited me to stay and be in charge of giving out the music and helping with the refreshments during choir practice after school, just not robe up and sing on Sunday. So I am still able to share with my choir friends. When the others received a choir cross to wear at the end of the season, I also received one. I'm sorry your adult experience was not so good. You may ask if you could help during choir rehearsals in some way if you would still enjoy the social part.
I'd sort of been adopted and absorbed into the choir despite not reading music and found it both convivial and a good way to get 'under the bonnet' of how Orthodox services 'work', if such a thing were possible.
The choir were happy for me to do what I could as it gave a bit more 'body' to the sound even though I messed up frequently.
This was fine when everyone was there but in recent weeks with holidays and so on, the choir has been thinner than usual and that made our parish priest more aware of my musical inadequacies - although I only stayed put in order to help out. It was either that or have just two voices at times.
Consequently he booted me out rather unceremoniously before the Liturgy started this Sunday.
That stung but I'm a big boy now and I'll get over it. I found it fun while it lasted and nobody else complained. I'll return to the pews with a better understanding of how the services hang together and will concentrate on serving the parish in other ways. The choir don't really need me.
I wasn't best pleased with the way it was done, to put it mildly. I'd have preferred it if he'd quietly taken me aside after the service last week rather than booting me off just before the service started and giving me unholy thoughts to wrestle with before communion.
He means well but tact and diplomacy aren't his strong points.
I'll survive.
You're a lot more charitable than I'd be, I'm afraid. What a way of behaving!
It's never a great feeling, to be slighted, whether explicitly or by it being made obvious you are a lesser priority. Worse when there's no compensating voice to say 'well, I love you'.
This may seem odd, and I don't mean for it to come across as unfeeling, but increasingly I'm finding myself wanting to find ways to be alone. Mon-Fri I'm in classes full of Middle School students. Sundays I'm at church accompanying masses and running rehearsals replete with parishioners. Saturday is the lone day of the week that has any potential for solitude, but family prevents that a lot of the time. It feels so selfish, but as an introvert, even one or two people who are dearest to me feel crowding sometimes.
This may seem odd, and I don't mean for it to come across as unfeeling, but increasingly I'm finding myself wanting to find ways to be alone. Mon-Fri I'm in classes full of Middle School students. Sundays I'm at church accompanying masses and running rehearsals replete with parishioners. Saturday is the lone day of the week that has any potential for solitude, but family prevents that a lot of the time. It feels so selfish, but as an introvert, even one or two people who are dearest to me feel crowding sometimes.
Not at all odd, @The_Riv - I am OK at social / busy events but need time alone to recharge after a while. When I had a busy role that included evening engagements, quiet early mornings and/or solitary lunchtime walks felt really helpful.
But also, as @Bishops Finger points out, having the right balance is also helpful.
This may seem odd, and I don't mean for it to come across as unfeeling, but increasingly I'm finding myself wanting to find ways to be alone. Mon-Fri I'm in classes full of Middle School students. Sundays I'm at church accompanying masses and running rehearsals replete with parishioners. Saturday is the lone day of the week that has any potential for solitude, but family prevents that a lot of the time. It feels so selfish, but as an introvert, even one or two people who are dearest to me feel crowding sometimes.
It sounds completely sensible to me.
Can you arrange somehow for more alone time? Would your family understand if you explained this to them? If they're introverts, they might already feel what you mean.
Tell it not in Gath but there are issues with our parish priest. He's lost his mojo to a considerable extent and is well past his use by date. He can be remarkably rude and insensitive but remains a good 'confessor' and capable of wise and insightful counsel.
He's a good 'liturgist' but can be obsessive over minor points of detail.
I should have held off when there were so few there. My gaffs tend to be hidden when there's a larger choir.
I feel sorry for him, truth be told.
Keep this to yourselves folks. We are working on succession plans.
@The_Riv The Lord calls us all to sabbath rest for a reason. It is important to honor that. Do find some alone time. As a fellow introvert, I had to tell my family early on to be at my best for all I needed to carve out some alone time.
@ChastMastr would setting timed alarms on your phone for a while help to set up a routine? Although I am not best placed to advise, since I am habitual to the verge of ritual.
I seem to bypass them with blinding ease, unfortunately.
Do you have anything you DON'T bypass? Something suitably annoying, or difficult-of-turning-off, or embarrassing-of-avoiding?
Not at the moment, no. Well, sometimes the cats. Basically if it’s for myself rather than an obligation to someone else it’s very hard to make myself keep that. If I know I have to go somewhere, like for school or to a doctor appointment or to get together with a friend, that’s very different. But I did successfully eat breakfast before noon today or at least start it before noon today but then I was having brunch with a friend who is visiting from Chicago. Speaking of which has it’s 10:58 PM here I should probably consider dinner… It would be nice to start eating before midnight. That’s a factor of course in what happens the next day…
@ChastMastr I paid (a lot of money to me) for an ADHD coach. Worth every penny.
This was fifteen years ago now. I still live by what I learned.
Sending hugs! I need to read my ADHD book which (… ironically? Logically?) I’d literally forgotten I had until just this moment. Thank you for reminding me! It’s by Penn and Kim Holderness:
I understand that you can train cats to annoy you till you do something you should (say, eating). Just make sure every time you eat you give them some minor delight of their hearts, and they will quickly begin to harass you at the appropriate time. I’ve seen it in action, too.
The conference I am attending has an interesting innovation. There are green, yellow and red coloured stickers you are invited to attach to your conference badge:
green = happy to socialise, feel free to approach me
yellow = willing to socialise, but I may have some difficulty
red = please do not approach me
The badges are on lanyards and are two sided. One of my acquaintances has put a green sticker on one side and a red on the other, so that he can give himself some space if he needs it.
I wonder if having a sort of signal system like that, in life in general, might be a helpful thing?
My local park (South Wales - where else?) has several “Happy to chat” benches, painted lilac, where you can sit if you feel like having conversations with random strangers. There are plenty of regular brown benches if that isn’t your thing.
I understand that you can train cats to annoy you till you do something you should (say, eating). Just make sure every time you eat you give them some minor delight of their hearts, and they will quickly begin to harass you at the appropriate time. I’ve seen it in action, too.
Aw, I don’t train them, I just interact with them. They do make clear what they want though. We meow at each other. ❤️
We have two cats, one which talks quite a bit and one that is mostly silent, except for first thing in the morning when he demands treats and quite vigorous pats. He has not recovered from the husband's return to the Office post-lockdown as he would lie on the shelf above my husband or sit next to him as he worked. I think he may have made the odd work meeting too! We are very well trained by our cats and I've already walked them on their leads this morning.
I'm very moved by people sharing so honestly about their experiences. Sometimes I feel alone though I live with my family, we all go off in our different directions watching or researching our own interests.
Occasionally I try to broach the subject of when it is just one of us left, but those conversations are usually quite one sided where I express my thoughts but nothing comes back. I interpret it as a shut-down, but it might just be a case of pondering but not responding.
Hmm. I'm not sure about cats but Black Dog has been snuffling around again and I need to fend him off.
Whereas I currently have a black cat* curled up in my laundry basket which is sitting in the sun. Currently she's multi-tasking - sleeping, dribbling and purring. Aroha never purrs in her sleep, but she does snore.
* Spooky from along the road is visiting
I've lived by myself for much of my adult life and rarely feel lonely, but since I visited G, my oldest brother who has Parkinsons and lives in Wellington I'm more aware of how much I will miss him when he dies - (they are "keeping him comfortable" now, so I suspect that means his life expectancy isn't long). I do have two other brothers, one of whom I have more in common with than G but people are unique and one doesn't just replace another.
Cats are cool but I'm not in a hurry to have another. There are lots of birds in my garden and enough cats around here who try to catch them.
Black Dog often visits but generally I can fend him off fairly easily, but he is wily and can find other ways back. Constant vigilance can be exhausting but there are things I can do to diminish the ferocity of his attacks or keep him at a safer distance.
My sympathy with having the black dog. He used to visit me infrequently (being bipolar he is an expected visitor but I am more usually manic) but during the pandemic I developed a consistent low grade depression which took time to shake off and now he appears on a more regular basis.
The black dog, and all his other friends, has/have gone completely out of focus as a result of my strong suspicion that I am affected simultaneously by autism and ADHD. All the symptoms I thought I understood may be explained by these factors, but also potentially more or less complex PTSD and other factors. Currently, I feel like an alphabet soup in need of straining. This is one of the reasons why my contributions to the Ship are so patchy - I get very worked up about something, and then completely confused and paranoid about being challenged on the one hand, and irritating people on the other. It makes life quite difficult at times, and I'm not convinced that any available steps, including formal diagnosis, offer any kind of resolution.
The best solution I found for my alphabet soup was an ADHD coach. That was more than ten years ago now. I still use the coping strategies and understanding I learned with her.
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I spent most of my adult life alone, especially after my parents died, although I had support from my siblings and my friends and, of course, had two boys to keep me on my toes. I was occasionally lonely - single parenthood can be a lonely path to tread at times - but also relished my own company.
I have been in a relationship (yes, my first ever) for over eight years now and we live together and are currently looking at retiring together. Occasionally I am still lonely - my friends live far away from my man's house where I moved in during Covid, and my work hours have made it impossible to make friends locally. I'm hoping that retirement and moving to a new location in a couple of years' time (yes, back to the Island - anyone for another Wightmeet???) will provide opportunity to broaden my circle of not-online friends.
One thing that I have realised, both from reading this thread and from "inheriting" my father after my mum died, together with the fact that my man is currently away with work for three weeks: it is really important to plan ahead. There will come a day when one of us is no longer around. We love doing things together, and do share some friends, but it's important for each of us to find our own friends and pursue our own hobbies. We need to plan the layout of the kitchen cupboards etc in our new home so that, unlike here, I'm not dependant on his extra seven inches of height to reach the new pack of toilet rolls down for me! Maybe sometimes we even need to go out to a cafe alone (I find a good book or Kindle is perfect) or to the cinema alone to watch things the other doesn't fancy.
For travel, I know my sister speaks very highly of One Traveller (though it's not cheap!)
I know some charities and organisations link volunteers and others for something as simple as a phone chat once a week. My mother-out-of-law employs a cleaner, not because she does the cleaning (she really doesn't!!!) but because she's fun for a chat. Loneliness goes deeper, I know, than simply not having human contact and someone to talk to, but it's a start.
The fact that we moved ten years ago to be nearer my daughter and son, and live in a very convenient location has helped me enormously.
My sleep patterns are shot though. I often nod off in the afternoon then can't sleep properly at night.
Maybe the Isle of Wight (or ‘far famed Isle of Wight’, as Jane Austen put it
I am a bit confused though, because I have a feeling I met you (and a smudglet) at a Scottish shipmeet, many years ago. Even more confusingly, I can’t remember what my ship-name was then… in my defence, it was a very long time ago!
All the planning ideas are good. My main contingency is to try to preserve some savings so I have the expenses to move to a retirement flat later in life, if I need to.
@Gamma Gamaliel I don’t have any answer on sleeping, sadly - I think it changes as you get older (I wake more in the night now). I do find that being outside in the afternoon (even just a trip to the shops) helps a wee bit.
@ChastMastr would setting timed alarms on your phone for a while help to set up a routine? Although I am not best placed to advise, since I am habitual to the verge of ritual.
Two things can be pretty well guaranteed to interrupt a night's sleep - needing the loo, and taking painkillers. Then there's all the stuff in your head that keeps you awake.
Otoh, you get to see a lot of sunrises.
I had had a really enjoyable evening of singing, first night back at my ( auditioned) choir, a real workout. I then allowed myself a couple of hours to wind down before bed.
I've just been thrown off our church choir. It's probably for the best but it rankled the way it was done. I'm a big boy now though. I'll get over it.
Indeed you most probably did.
Would you care to say why? No obligation.
The choir were happy for me to do what I could as it gave a bit more 'body' to the sound even though I messed up frequently.
This was fine when everyone was there but in recent weeks with holidays and so on, the choir has been thinner than usual and that made our parish priest more aware of my musical inadequacies - although I only stayed put in order to help out. It was either that or have just two voices at times.
Consequently he booted me out rather unceremoniously before the Liturgy started this Sunday.
That stung but I'm a big boy now and I'll get over it. I found it fun while it lasted and nobody else complained. I'll return to the pews with a better understanding of how the services hang together and will concentrate on serving the parish in other ways. The choir don't really need me.
I wasn't best pleased with the way it was done, to put it mildly. I'd have preferred it if he'd quietly taken me aside after the service last week rather than booting me off just before the service started and giving me unholy thoughts to wrestle with before communion.
He means well but tact and diplomacy aren't his strong points.
I'll survive.
I am feeling a bit miffed. I have just had a text from a choir friend who had promised to meet up in the ten week summer break. She has apologised but been too busy, with frequent trips away with her husband. Two others I contacted replied merely acknowledging my suggestion of meeting but did not get back to me. Not best pleased. This choir restarts tomorrow.
@Puzzler that is really disappointing. You would think people could find the space for a cup of coffee in 10 weeks!
In both cases, @Firenze seems to hit the nail on the head.
I sometimes wonder if people lack the empathy to realise they are causing hurt, or just don't care anyway. Then again, perhaps it does not help to dwell on that.
You're a lot more charitable than I'd be, I'm afraid. What a way of behaving!
"Well, we love you!"
Not at all odd, @The_Riv - I am OK at social / busy events but need time alone to recharge after a while. When I had a busy role that included evening engagements, quiet early mornings and/or solitary lunchtime walks felt really helpful.
But also, as @Bishops Finger points out, having the right balance is also helpful.
It sounds completely sensible to me.
Can you arrange somehow for more alone time? Would your family understand if you explained this to them? If they're introverts, they might already feel what you mean.
I'm sorry. It's hard.
He's a good 'liturgist' but can be obsessive over minor points of detail.
I should have held off when there were so few there. My gaffs tend to be hidden when there's a larger choir.
I feel sorry for him, truth be told.
Keep this to yourselves folks. We are working on succession plans.
I seem to bypass them with blinding ease, unfortunately.
Not at the moment, no. Well, sometimes the cats. Basically if it’s for myself rather than an obligation to someone else it’s very hard to make myself keep that. If I know I have to go somewhere, like for school or to a doctor appointment or to get together with a friend, that’s very different. But I did successfully eat breakfast before noon today or at least start it before noon today but then I was having brunch with a friend who is visiting from Chicago. Speaking of which has it’s 10:58 PM here I should probably consider dinner… It would be nice to start eating before midnight. That’s a factor of course in what happens the next day…
This was fifteen years ago now. I still live by what I learned.
Sending hugs! I need to read my ADHD book which (… ironically? Logically?) I’d literally forgotten I had until just this moment. Thank you for reminding me! It’s by Penn and Kim Holderness:
https://youtu.be/1S27HbEWV0M?si=4BzWOX3EVyUQL-a3
green = happy to socialise, feel free to approach me
yellow = willing to socialise, but I may have some difficulty
red = please do not approach me
The badges are on lanyards and are two sided. One of my acquaintances has put a green sticker on one side and a red on the other, so that he can give himself some space if he needs it.
I wonder if having a sort of signal system like that, in life in general, might be a helpful thing?
Me neither - but I hope @Cameron will let us know how it works out in his conference context!
Or 'lush' if you're from Cardiff.
Aw, I don’t train them, I just interact with them. They do make clear what they want though. We meow at each other. ❤️
I'm very moved by people sharing so honestly about their experiences. Sometimes I feel alone though I live with my family, we all go off in our different directions watching or researching our own interests.
Occasionally I try to broach the subject of when it is just one of us left, but those conversations are usually quite one sided where I express my thoughts but nothing comes back. I interpret it as a shut-down, but it might just be a case of pondering but not responding.
Prayers ascending and I relate...
Whereas I currently have a black cat* curled up in my laundry basket which is sitting in the sun. Currently she's multi-tasking - sleeping, dribbling and purring. Aroha never purrs in her sleep, but she does snore.
* Spooky from along the road is visiting
I've lived by myself for much of my adult life and rarely feel lonely, but since I visited G, my oldest brother who has Parkinsons and lives in Wellington I'm more aware of how much I will miss him when he dies - (they are "keeping him comfortable" now, so I suspect that means his life expectancy isn't long). I do have two other brothers, one of whom I have more in common with than G but people are unique and one doesn't just replace another.
Cats are cool but I'm not in a hurry to have another. There are lots of birds in my garden and enough cats around here who try to catch them.
Black Dog often visits but generally I can fend him off fairly easily, but he is wily and can find other ways back. Constant vigilance can be exhausting but there are things I can do to diminish the ferocity of his attacks or keep him at a safer distance.
I find he runs off when I stand up to him but it can require some effort and energy to do so.
I hope you are able to find strategies that work for you.